Comments on: Is Apple Gunning for Firefox? http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/ A narrative on the future of web browsers and web browsing Sat, 28 Aug 2010 14:31:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Brendan Eich http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-452 Brendan Eich Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:45:05 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-452 preed: "used to be"? I call cheap shot, since this (right here and now) is an open discussion, and no one among the evil-chilling-effect overlords of Mozilla demanded that it be pulled, or ordered a black-bag job on Matt :-P. If he can dish it out, he can take it -- same for you. Possibly dissent from the proposition that old news deserves a rehash is not to your liking, but please don't start shouting "Roswell!" just yet (I miss classic X-Files; "Jose Chung's from Outer Space" ref, of course). "We" (who?) are not the MIBs you are looking for. ;-) Truth be told, there are raw competitive nerves at work on both (or several) "sides", and Mozillans I respect simply do not want to rub salt in 'em. The facts and analysis based on fact should prevail in the end. Any bad conscience over that slide from last year's WWDC should continue to nag until we get a better slide, or a better outcome in the market. I encourage Matt to keep posting. /be preed: “used to be”? I call cheap shot, since this (right here and now) is an open discussion, and no one among the evil-chilling-effect overlords of Mozilla demanded that it be pulled, or ordered a black-bag job on Matt :-P . If he can dish it out, he can take it — same for you.

Possibly dissent from the proposition that old news deserves a rehash is not to your liking, but please don’t start shouting “Roswell!” just yet (I miss classic X-Files; “Jose Chung’s from Outer Space” ref, of course). “We” (who?) are not the MIBs you are looking for. ;-)

Truth be told, there are raw competitive nerves at work on both (or several) “sides”, and Mozillans I respect simply do not want to rub salt in ‘em.

The facts and analysis based on fact should prevail in the end. Any bad conscience over that slide from last year’s WWDC should continue to nag until we get a better slide, or a better outcome in the market. I encourage Matt to keep posting.

/be

]]> By: Matt http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-450 Matt Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:30:20 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-450 Thanks to those you expressed dismay at the negative reaction to my post. I admit that the knee jerk rejection of posts that don't toe the party line is something that I've found disturbing for quite some time. I've been tempted a number of times to post an angry rant on the topic (called "Open Source and Closed Minds" or something like that)... but I'm afraid of pissing people off. :-) Thanks to those you expressed dismay at the negative reaction to my post. I admit that the knee jerk rejection of posts that don’t toe the party line is something that I’ve found disturbing for quite some time. I’ve been tempted a number of times to post an angry rant on the topic (called “Open Source and Closed Minds” or something like that)… but I’m afraid of pissing people off. :-)

]]> By: enefekt http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-449 enefekt Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:17:19 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-449 Amen to Preed's words. Amen to Preed’s words.

]]> By: Preed http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-448 Preed Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:47:12 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-448 Wow. Talk about a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect" rel="nofollow">chilling effect</a>. Granted, I was only able to read the "goodthink" version of your post, but I don't see anything particularly inflammatory about the questions you pose. Apparently, quoting others' (old) blog posts, synthesizing the speculation, arguments, and predictions presented therein with current information, and posing new questions based off of that analysis is now grounds to be called a troll? That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can only speculate the reasons why the reaction was so strong. I, for one, appreciate the questions you've posed, Matt. I don't always agree with your answers or analysis, but I value the discussion. It's a shame that others don't. Open discussion used to be a defining trait of Mozilla. Wow.

Talk about a chilling effect.

Granted, I was only able to read the “goodthink” version of your post, but I don’t see anything particularly inflammatory about the questions you pose.

Apparently, quoting others’ (old) blog posts, synthesizing the speculation, arguments, and predictions presented therein with current information, and posing new questions based off of that analysis is now grounds to be called a troll?

That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can only speculate the reasons why the reaction was so strong.

I, for one, appreciate the questions you’ve posed, Matt. I don’t always agree with your answers or analysis, but I value the discussion.

It’s a shame that others don’t.

Open discussion used to be a defining trait of Mozilla.

]]> By: David Naylor http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-446 David Naylor Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:15:03 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-446 Can't see why everyone is getting all offended about this... So what if it's old news, it was interesting to be reminded now that Apple has pushed Safari to all Windows PC:s it possibly can. Can’t see why everyone is getting all offended about this… So what if it’s old news, it was interesting to be reminded now that Apple has pushed Safari to all Windows PC:s it possibly can.

]]> By: Matt http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-445 Matt Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:46:45 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-445 Argh, I guess this wasn't one of my more successful posts. I blame jet lag. :-) I don't believe in deleting whole posts, but I removed the images and posted some new clarification at the beginning. Argh, I guess this wasn’t one of my more successful posts. I blame jet lag. :-) I don’t believe in deleting whole posts, but I removed the images and posted some new clarification at the beginning.

]]> By: John Lilly http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-444 John Lilly Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:20:19 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-444 I think this is old news, too, and not super-helpful, Matt. I'm very happy that there are more browsers competing and giving people more choices and innovations -- it's the way things are supposed to work. For whatever it's worth, it seems to me that both Firefox and Safari are gaining users at a fast clip now, which means that people are making choices. That's all to the good. I think this is old news, too, and not super-helpful, Matt. I’m very happy that there are more browsers competing and giving people more choices and innovations — it’s the way things are supposed to work. For whatever it’s worth, it seems to me that both Firefox and Safari are gaining users at a fast clip now, which means that people are making choices. That’s all to the good.

]]> By: Mossop http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-443 Mossop Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:16:50 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-443 Perhaps the real answer is merely one of thinking in some realistic terms. Of all the users of the web, who are you most likely to get to switch to a new browser? Well those who have already switched to something different. If they have done it once they are much more likely to do it again IMHO. Perhaps the real answer is merely one of thinking in some realistic terms. Of all the users of the web, who are you most likely to get to switch to a new browser? Well those who have already switched to something different. If they have done it once they are much more likely to do it again IMHO.

]]> By: Matt http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-442 Matt Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:02:15 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-442 Yeah, I said a couple of times that it was old news. I was reminded of it by a commenter and spent the next 24 hours pondering what Jobs had in mind. I blogged about it since I'm still baffled and wanted to know what other people thought. Also, time sometimes provides more perspective so it might be worth revisiting things occasionally. Plus I've been traveling so I haven't had time to devote to more substantial posts. Sorry if I offended. Yeah, I said a couple of times that it was old news. I was reminded of it by a commenter and spent the next 24 hours pondering what Jobs had in mind. I blogged about it since I’m still baffled and wanted to know what other people thought. Also, time sometimes provides more perspective so it might be worth revisiting things occasionally. Plus I’ve been traveling so I haven’t had time to devote to more substantial posts. Sorry if I offended.

]]> By: Vlad Vukicevic http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/comment-page-1/#comment-441 Vlad Vukicevic Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:52:40 +0000 http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/03/27/is-apple-gunning-for-firefox/#comment-441 This is old news; it pissed people off when it first came out almost a year ago, but we've moved on since then -- but we all know that Apple marketing/corporate can be assholes. Was there a purpose in bringing this up again, beyond trying to stir crap up? If that was the only reason, can you tag any further posts with 'troll' so that I can more easily ignore them? This is old news; it pissed people off when it first came out almost a year ago, but we’ve moved on since then — but we all know that Apple marketing/corporate can be assholes. Was there a purpose in bringing this up again, beyond trying to stir crap up? If that was the only reason, can you tag any further posts with ‘troll’ so that I can more easily ignore them?

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