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	<title>Comments on: Is Web Standardization Obsolete?</title>
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	<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/</link>
	<description>A narrative on the future of web browsers and web browsing</description>
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		<title>By: Webmaster</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-1710</link>
		<dc:creator>Webmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 10:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-1710</guid>
		<description>I have always wanted a compendium of novena prayers. Thank you for sharing all these prayers with us. It brings joy and happiness to everyone. I know, I do feel that way.t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always wanted a compendium of novena prayers. Thank you for sharing all these prayers with us. It brings joy and happiness to everyone. I know, I do feel that way.t</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 08:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-982</guid>
		<description>Just a small comment:

I do web standards based design as much as possible (Doctype Strict XHTML 1) - use Full CSS 2.1 Style sheets and totally separate the formatting from the structure.

The funny thing (not so funny actually) is I was just finishing testing a page and css file - tested in about 40 different concoctions of different browsers, Platforms and Versions - Now:

The good news is that almost all browsers/platforms/versions/mixtures rendered Standards compliant to the pixel.

And this included IE 5, 5.5, 6 and 7.

So I decided to also test it in IE 8 (Beta) - WOOOOAH -
ALL BLANK - BLANK PAGES - SEE NADA and NOTHING.

Then today I was reading for the first time about this META BULL SHIT - and ...

VOILA it worked to the Pixel uxing:

even in IE5, 6, 7

still have to see what this brings:


I also deleted the doctype and uploaded and tested in IE8 - and that worked too - but I am not a fan of this practice.

But my point is this:
I am self-employed working from home doing websites and am isolated and when I work I don&#039;t have much time to surf for info all the time.

So finding by chance the IE8 Meta Switcher Thing was pure luck --- and I would like to say that the majority of MS developers are careless rascals because most of them just don&#039;t use doctypes on purpose.

Pages start with html and end with it.
Just built for IE lots of times - and even then with a zillion errors in it and only half working.

I call it lazy - and most of these pages when they validate validate with 100s of errors or not at all.

Plus MS is still a GARAGE-COMPANY - producing crappy machines with crappy software.

The rendering is crap too - plain and ugly (when viewing in IE, as compared to Safari for example which renders nice)

So hopefully sometime in the future Internet Explorer will lose all its popularity and we all can bury it and move forward to better things without Microsoft.

Here is the webpage I tested (it has the META BUG FIX IN IT - http://www.yss-australia.com/HYPERPRO/hyperpro-shocks3Col.html

By Roger Ledergerber</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a small comment:</p>
<p>I do web standards based design as much as possible (Doctype Strict XHTML 1) &#8211; use Full CSS 2.1 Style sheets and totally separate the formatting from the structure.</p>
<p>The funny thing (not so funny actually) is I was just finishing testing a page and css file &#8211; tested in about 40 different concoctions of different browsers, Platforms and Versions &#8211; Now:</p>
<p>The good news is that almost all browsers/platforms/versions/mixtures rendered Standards compliant to the pixel.</p>
<p>And this included IE 5, 5.5, 6 and 7.</p>
<p>So I decided to also test it in IE 8 (Beta) &#8211; WOOOOAH -<br />
ALL BLANK &#8211; BLANK PAGES &#8211; SEE NADA and NOTHING.</p>
<p>Then today I was reading for the first time about this META BULL SHIT &#8211; and &#8230;</p>
<p>VOILA it worked to the Pixel uxing:</p>
<p>even in IE5, 6, 7</p>
<p>still have to see what this brings:</p>
<p>I also deleted the doctype and uploaded and tested in IE8 &#8211; and that worked too &#8211; but I am not a fan of this practice.</p>
<p>But my point is this:<br />
I am self-employed working from home doing websites and am isolated and when I work I don&#8217;t have much time to surf for info all the time.</p>
<p>So finding by chance the IE8 Meta Switcher Thing was pure luck &#8212; and I would like to say that the majority of MS developers are careless rascals because most of them just don&#8217;t use doctypes on purpose.</p>
<p>Pages start with html and end with it.<br />
Just built for IE lots of times &#8211; and even then with a zillion errors in it and only half working.</p>
<p>I call it lazy &#8211; and most of these pages when they validate validate with 100s of errors or not at all.</p>
<p>Plus MS is still a GARAGE-COMPANY &#8211; producing crappy machines with crappy software.</p>
<p>The rendering is crap too &#8211; plain and ugly (when viewing in IE, as compared to Safari for example which renders nice)</p>
<p>So hopefully sometime in the future Internet Explorer will lose all its popularity and we all can bury it and move forward to better things without Microsoft.</p>
<p>Here is the webpage I tested (it has the META BUG FIX IN IT &#8211; <a href="http://www.yss-australia.com/HYPERPRO/hyperpro-shocks3Col.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.yss-australia.com/HYPERPRO/hyperpro-shocks3Col.html</a></p>
<p>By Roger Ledergerber</p>
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		<title>By: Web Developer Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; IE8 versioning snowstorm</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Developer Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; IE8 versioning snowstorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-582</guid>
		<description>[...] Is Web Standardization Obsolete? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is Web Standardization Obsolete? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Just Browsing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Googling Gearing Up For?</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Browsing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Googling Gearing Up For?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>[...] a Google employee. You can hardly blame them for forging their own path, however, considering the frustration inherent in most standardization efforts. My guess is that they&#8217;re planning to fold their work into WHAT WG at some point in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a Google employee. You can hardly blame them for forging their own path, however, considering the frustration inherent in most standardization efforts. My guess is that they&#8217;re planning to fold their work into WHAT WG at some point in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg K Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg K Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>funtomas, IE8 &lt;em&gt;won&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; pass Acid2—Acid2 doesn&#039;t contain crucial meta element: &lt;code&gt;&lt;meta http-equiv=&quot;X-UA-Compatible&quot; content=&quot;IE=8&quot; /&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.

If a page doesn&#039;t include that element, IE8 will render it exactly as wrongly as IE7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funtomas, IE8 <em>won&#8217;t</em> pass Acid2—Acid2 doesn&#8217;t contain crucial meta element: <code>&lt;meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=8" /&gt;</code>.</p>
<p>If a page doesn&#8217;t include that element, IE8 will render it exactly as wrongly as IE7.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Browsing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Håkon Wium Lie on Microsoft and Acid2</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Browsing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Håkon Wium Lie on Microsoft and Acid2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>[...] were inevitably looking for clues that this might be too good to be true, and the brouhaha surrounding Microsoft&#8217;s plan for preserving backward compatibility in IE8 has provided them [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were inevitably looking for clues that this might be too good to be true, and the brouhaha surrounding Microsoft&#8217;s plan for preserving backward compatibility in IE8 has provided them [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pd</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>pd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I think you hit the nail on the head in your second paragraph without realising it. Why should web standards be any different to other industry standards? Take HTML5 to the ISO and get this crap all sorted out once and for all. The W3C, WSP, WHATWG, they&#039;re all useless. With luck the Opera case in Europe would impose legally binding standards compliance via an antitrust verdict. The imposing body would be the EU. However that is unlikely. Take standards to a legally backed entity like the ISO.

As for IE8&#039;s meta switch, it&#039;s early days but I don&#039;t see this as a scheme that other browser developers have to adopt. Therefore there&#039;s no burden on non-MS vendors to support old engine revisions like you suggest.

MS is providing us with the ability to do cross-browser standards compliance and all we need to do is add one extra tag.

Those with old browsers will see dodgy sites, simple as that. The issue is more about Microsoft&#039;s distribution model. If they stagger (legit users, illegit users later) the distribution of IE8 as they&#039;ve done with IE7, there will be trouble. If they pump down IE8 immediately upon release, that&#039;s different. That&#039;s the key IMHO. Get IE8 out there and we have a standards compliant browser market and we no reason to write a second version of sites for old browsers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you hit the nail on the head in your second paragraph without realising it. Why should web standards be any different to other industry standards? Take HTML5 to the ISO and get this crap all sorted out once and for all. The W3C, WSP, WHATWG, they&#8217;re all useless. With luck the Opera case in Europe would impose legally binding standards compliance via an antitrust verdict. The imposing body would be the EU. However that is unlikely. Take standards to a legally backed entity like the ISO.</p>
<p>As for IE8&#8217;s meta switch, it&#8217;s early days but I don&#8217;t see this as a scheme that other browser developers have to adopt. Therefore there&#8217;s no burden on non-MS vendors to support old engine revisions like you suggest.</p>
<p>MS is providing us with the ability to do cross-browser standards compliance and all we need to do is add one extra tag.</p>
<p>Those with old browsers will see dodgy sites, simple as that. The issue is more about Microsoft&#8217;s distribution model. If they stagger (legit users, illegit users later) the distribution of IE8 as they&#8217;ve done with IE7, there will be trouble. If they pump down IE8 immediately upon release, that&#8217;s different. That&#8217;s the key IMHO. Get IE8 out there and we have a standards compliant browser market and we no reason to write a second version of sites for old browsers.</p>
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		<title>By: funtomas</title>
		<link>http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>funtomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://browsing.justdiscourse.com/2008/01/22/is-web-standardization-obsolete/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Yep, the upcoming IE8 passing the Acid2 too. Love the standards. Write once, run anywhere deja vu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, the upcoming IE8 passing the Acid2 too. Love the standards. Write once, run anywhere deja vu.</p>
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